PDA

View Full Version : Is CO2 worth it?



blue_baron
08-29-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey all,

I'm looking to make the lightest possible sniperII setup while maintaining a sensible shot count in my gas source. Right now my marker is set up for HPA, but I'm wondering if CO2 would be of any advantage in the long run? Would going with regulated CO2 be less efficient than retuning for unregged CO2? If I were to stick with regulated CO2, would a new valve such as the Palmers LT valve be of any advantage in getting the best performance? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Chefdave
08-29-2008, 03:54 PM
All I use is CO2 (mostly unregged) in all of my Snipers/Cockers.

Depending on what your current setup is, you may be able to just plug your CO2 right in with no changes. Your reg is probably going to be the biggest factor.

PsYcHoHoLiC
08-29-2008, 06:10 PM
so co2 unregged hmm i got a sniper 2 with co2 never ran it and was thinking about doing that.. but that's how they where designed right?snipers and older cockers that is..

blue_baron
08-29-2008, 10:34 PM
Well my current reg is a CP, but if I were to actually switch to CO2 then I'd invest in a Stabilizer, cuz I don't want to sacrifice shot consistency.

PsYcHoHoLiC
08-29-2008, 10:44 PM
expantion chambers work to right?

Chefdave
08-29-2008, 11:03 PM
May as well use a reg if you are going to use an expansion chamber.

PsYcHoHoLiC
08-30-2008, 12:35 PM
lol true that.. :cool:

Railgun
08-31-2008, 08:50 AM
If you want to run unregged CO2 then you're going to find that it will be harder to set up the velocity and hold it due to the modern valve size.

The newer valves are all larger to work best with regged low pressure. But when you run unregged at around 850 psi the larger valves fight you. When I tried this I found that I was able to set the velocity but it was really sensitive. Like literally 1/10 of a turn took it from well under to well over. I ran it for a day like this but I could tell that my consistency was not there. Now way back when they managed just fine with direct CO2. The answer was the old early to mid 90's very small valve.

Using the small valve puts more of the control on the valve and hammer spring combination and less on the pressure pushing on the cup seal. And that means that your velocity will be more consistent throughout the day as the CO2 bottle pressure changes with temperature.

While it may be hard to find a genuine early valve there's an option. I believe Palmer's is selling a small diameter clone of these early valves. They aren't cheap though.

blue_baron
08-31-2008, 12:42 PM
Yes I was on Palmers' website a couple of days ago and they have a Low Turbulence valve designed for unregged CO2, and I'm pretty sure the price tag is ~$39, which isn't atrocious. Is there any major difference between regulated vs unregulated CO2 in efficiency?

Railgun
08-31-2008, 07:44 PM
Not a significant one if any. If the valve and spring system as a whole is designed to work at the unregged pressure of direct CO2 it'll be fine. Look at Phantoms and other Nelson based guns. They are set up for efficiency on direct CO2 and often see 30 to 40 shots from a 12gram. Now THAT'S efficient.

With the right setup and tuning there's no reason why a sniper, which is really just a tarted up Sheridan system, can't see similar efficiency levels.

Oh, one other item. Given that the Sheridans all use very small transfer porting in the bolt you may want to look into copying that as well. A small 3/16 or 1/4 hole at most up and around and then flare out in steps just before the ball so the back of the ball sees a more diffuse pressure hit. Again the smaller transfer ports will avoid premature expansion (STOP GIGGLING! :D) and should aid the efficiency.

drg
09-02-2008, 10:55 AM
Yes I was on Palmers' website a couple of days ago and they have a Low Turbulence valve designed for unregged CO2, and I'm pretty sure the price tag is ~$39, which isn't atrocious. Is there any major difference between regulated vs unregulated CO2 in efficiency?

It all depends what specific gas source you are using, what you consider a sensible shot count, etc. You will not want to reg something running on powerlets, for example. How light is 'light' and are you looking for bragging rights or functionality?

Also keep in mind that sniper tuning involves other things than just efficiency.

blue_baron
09-02-2008, 12:09 PM
True true. I'm not trying for extremes here (no 12 grams in my near future) but I'd like to be able to go for a lighter setup compared to a 45/45 tank. I was thinking if I could run a 9 or 7 oz CO2 tank then that would probably be sufficient. I just don't want to bother going with a 22ci HPA tank because I want to be able to shoot off more than 150-200 shots, and I don't have access to HPA fills when I play away from my local field. I figured if I could get enough shot capacity for ~400-500 balls while maintaining a smaller lighter setup then I'd be satisfied. Heck, even if I can get 250-300 per tank then it's just a matter of picking up a couple of small CO2 tanks and swap out as necessary... they aren't exactly expensive, especially when compared to HPA tanks.

FeWolf
09-02-2008, 02:06 PM
I use the Smartparts Vert Max flow with 6oz tank, I do not shot enought really to have the cold effect on my parts, a hopper will easily last me a game. I carry extra hoppers for my son, who has a Impy, he pins them down and I pick them off, or he keeps the heat off me.

blue_baron
09-02-2008, 02:52 PM
I see, well when I said 150-200 shots I meant for a whole day of play, because I often only use ~50 balls in a single game. If the cost of getting a new reg among other parts becomes prohibitive, I may just pick up a couple of 22ci tanks instead. Really, come to think of it, assuming I buy everything new, a Stabilizer reg + two 7oz tanks would run me ~$140-160, which would be roughly the same as two 22ci tanks, so I may not bother doing the conversion after all.

mxmtl
09-02-2008, 05:09 PM
I've run regulated CO2 with 9 oz and 16 oz tanks, both siphoned and anti-siphoned. I noticed the most consistency with the anti-siphoned 16 oz tank, probably because there is a larger gas bubble than with the 9 oz. With good paint and barrel match, it was just as consistent as HPA. The 16 oz is not all that much heavier than a 9 oz, and when full, weighs almost the same as a 45/4500 empty.

As for regulator on my sniper setups, I've run CO2 through a Sidewinder, Palmers Stab, Black Magic Reg, and Karnivore/STO regulators. I saw no difference in performance among them.

For the weight, efficiency, and cost, I prefer CO2 over HPA. If I were to play in a tournament series where CO2 fills were not provided, I would use HPA.